tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7658526372996117205.post3393528806018331081..comments2023-09-29T05:32:04.308-07:00Comments on StrangePegs: It's Time For You To Grow Up (part 1) (an IWSG post)Andrew Leonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/13964775673414653644noreply@blogger.comBlogger18125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7658526372996117205.post-4526275583234409322015-04-02T15:08:52.320-07:002015-04-02T15:08:52.320-07:00TAS: That's true. As I was saying in my creati...TAS: That's true. As I was saying in my creative writing class the other night (the one for adults, not the one for middle schoolers):<br />If not for Lewis, we wouldn't have Tolkien.<br />But, if Lewis had listened to Tolkien, we wouldn't have Lewis.Andrew Leonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13964775673414653644noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7658526372996117205.post-76998270993582441592015-04-02T14:35:52.998-07:002015-04-02T14:35:52.998-07:00I think every artist needs a trusted friend. Hone...I think every artist needs a trusted friend. Honesty is good but it's also important to realize not all opinions are equal.The Armchair Squidhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10739833215220853127noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7658526372996117205.post-63751700494967821692015-04-01T21:56:56.755-07:002015-04-01T21:56:56.755-07:00Alex H: Thanks!Alex H: Thanks!Andrew Leonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13964775673414653644noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7658526372996117205.post-60658729526967458162015-04-01T19:41:53.225-07:002015-04-01T19:41:53.225-07:00YES. Your story at the beginning was perfect. I kn...YES. Your story at the beginning was perfect. I knew exactly where it was heading, and I really can't agree more with your opinions on this. Very well stated, Andrew. :) Shared it.Alex Hursthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05556334141936498897noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7658526372996117205.post-71864302802559400322015-04-01T18:34:06.144-07:002015-04-01T18:34:06.144-07:00Briane: Okay, as a side: I wasn't so much thin...Briane: Okay, as a side: I wasn't so much thinking of a personal dinner party at my house as I was a big hosted event. That's my bad for not being more clear.<br /><br />And I do understand your point about choosing what you review. However, when you're dealing with the indie book industry, choosing to only review books you like is bad for the industry. If we, as independent authors, want readers to take us seriously, we have to do a better job of informing the readers. The general consensus about indie authors is still a bunch of authors throwing crap against the wall and seeing how much of it sticks.<br /><br />Aside from that, indie authors need reviews, and a negative review is often as good as a positive one if it gives credibility to the book.Andrew Leonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13964775673414653644noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7658526372996117205.post-79522379165639286642015-04-01T18:22:56.602-07:002015-04-01T18:22:56.602-07:00Well, I like you but I disagree a bit.
The dinner...Well, I like you but I disagree a bit.<br /><br />The dinner party analogy isn't quite apt; if I come to your house for dinner and the food is awful, I'm not sure I should 'review' it and say so. If it's just a social occasion, a little white lie is probably called for.<br /><br />If, though, you say "How'd you like the food? I'm thinking of going into business as a chef," I owe it to tell you the truth.<br /><br />So reviewing a book for an indie writer is the latter; this isn't someone just doing something for fun or to be friendly. If someone tells me a story over lunch, and they're just BAD at telling stories, I don't say anything. I just nod and laugh etc. It's different when you're trying to do it as a business. It's just silly to say "I am going into business but you can't say anything negative about my products because that will hurt my feelings and/or destroy our friendship."<br /><br />About not posting negative reviews: I don't think it's exactly like only giving As or Bs; again, that's your job. I employ people and have to review them. I dislike criticizing people and making them feel bad. So I don't. Instead, I say something like "We need to get you more organized. Let's see how we can avoid having this happen again." I try to find jobs for people that match their skillsets; I have one employee who is very disorganized but good at other things, so that person is NOT in charge of things that require a lot of preplanning.<br /><br />The point is: if you are required to review EVERYONE because it's your job, you have to do negative reviews. Last year, I had to pull a lawyer off ALL of my cases. I had never done that before. But I was disappointed in his work and couldn't trust him to work on my files, and I told him so. I was polite about it, but that was it.<br /><br />So teachers have to grade everyone, and that means telling some people you got an F.<br /><br />But as a reader, I don't have to review anyone at all, and I can pick and choose who or what to review. I try to post positive reviews of books I liked from indie authors because I want them to know I liked the book and I want other people to know I liked it. That's my only goal in posting reviews: Let people know I liked it.<br /><br />I think your goals are more along the lines of 'providing information to people.' So in that case you have to post a negative review; that's more your thing, reviewing the good and the bad. But I don't think people should feel compelled to post a review of everything they read, especially if they don't want to make someone feel bad. I'm just taking the stance that it's wrong to post a false review to help someone or save their feelings..Brianehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01616494058636881575noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7658526372996117205.post-84366282841654585802015-04-01T16:54:18.729-07:002015-04-01T16:54:18.729-07:00Jeanne: The way to be worried about an author'...Jeanne: The way to be worried about an author's feelings is to only talk about the work. If I start bashing the author and name-calling, that's different than talking about the reasons I didn't like a particular work. If I talk about the work and the author gets all bent out of shape, that's on the author.Andrew Leonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13964775673414653644noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7658526372996117205.post-50888142871436433872015-04-01T16:52:42.448-07:002015-04-01T16:52:42.448-07:00TAS: That's true. Most people can't tell y...TAS: That's true. Most people can't tell you why they don't like something without someone else prying it out of them. Still, a simple "I didn't like this" is better than a positive review to "support" something you didn't actually like.Andrew Leonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13964775673414653644noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7658526372996117205.post-63892759079601438032015-04-01T16:51:01.406-07:002015-04-01T16:51:01.406-07:00Lee: I think she wanted to do the job. I mean, she...Lee: I think she wanted to do the job. I mean, she tried to do the job; she just couldn't get it right. Not that I haven't known plenty of people who spent most of their time try to figure out ways to look like they were working when they really weren't.<br /><br />It's true that the market accepts a lot of... low quality work, but that doesn't mean I'm going to rush over and give Twilight (because that author started out, for all intents and purposes, an indie author) a 5-star rating to be nice. We judge by the standards we hold, and we shouldn't toss those aside just to be nice and stroke someone's ego.Andrew Leonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13964775673414653644noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7658526372996117205.post-59769804159084725592015-04-01T15:50:02.375-07:002015-04-01T15:50:02.375-07:00I never like the "thick skin" analogy. I...I never like the "thick skin" analogy. It never seemed apt. Honestly, I do think people have to be worried about others' feelings, because they aren't nearly enough. But this doesn't mean that you shouldn't critique or point out problems. That being said, there's a difference between being sensitive to feelings and just being nice so you can get a good review back.J E Oneilhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09780097298061829471noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7658526372996117205.post-73328389263742743632015-04-01T15:40:11.658-07:002015-04-01T15:40:11.658-07:00I agree that honest feedback is crucial, especiall...I agree that honest feedback is crucial, especially for those of us in the teaching profession. But, as I think I've probably said before, what most people lack is the ability to criticize constructively. Too many either slam shamelessly, ignore the problem or, perhaps most aggravating, opt for the passive aggressive approach.<br /><br />As far as friends and colleagues are concerned, I've always valued those who aren't afraid to be completely honest. It's often not easy to hear the truth but it sure beats delusion. The Armchair Squidhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10739833215220853127noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7658526372996117205.post-80537692003369353352015-04-01T14:49:37.373-07:002015-04-01T14:49:37.373-07:00Your opening here caught my attention. In my year...Your opening here caught my attention. In my years of management I hired a few of those dud employees. They gave great first impressions in interviews and had wonderful resumes. Some people are really good at convincing people to hire them and I fell for it more than once.<br /><br />I think sometimes those people really don't want to be doing the job so once they get on and start collecting a paycheck then they just sit back to get what they can for as long as they can. That's been my argument against raising minimum wage: If someone's good enough an employer will be willing to pay them what they are worth. Firing someone is not something most managers like to do and there can sometimes be unwanted repercussions in those firings.<br /><br />Kind of like the bad reviews I guess. I mostly don't review much because I don't read enough. I have given some less than stellar reviews and have had the authors stop contacting me. I like to be fair, but honest. If an author doesn't want honest then they are going to hurt themselves in the long run. The market will be the one to decide and the market can be brutal. But the market sometimes can also be stupid and accept crap so I guess it's all a crap game in the end. There's just some crap that's a whole lot better than others. And how I got there I'm not sure, but maybe something that I said made some kind of sense.<br /><br />Arlee Bird<br />A to Z Challenge Co-host<br /><a href="http://tossingitout.blogspot.com/" rel="nofollow">Tossing It Out</a>Arlee Birdhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11663942782929929334noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7658526372996117205.post-44145690285163032142015-04-01T11:51:50.511-07:002015-04-01T11:51:50.511-07:00L.G.: That's not always true about the first c...L.G.: That's not always true about the first chapter, though. A book can be really good that doesn't seem to start out that way, or a book that has a really good opening can go one to suck hairy lollipops. When you're dealing with mainstream stuff that has lots of reviews, you can usually pick through them and a few that actually evaluate what you're looking at. When you're dealing with indie stuff that usually has less than a dozen reviews and they are all "yea! this is awesome!" you don't have any way to evaluate.Andrew Leonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13964775673414653644noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7658526372996117205.post-18785305737825772722015-04-01T11:46:59.794-07:002015-04-01T11:46:59.794-07:00Alex: Yeah, you're no good as a CP if you can&...Alex: Yeah, you're no good as a CP if you can't bring yourself to say what's not working.<br />And I agree with you about not reviewing books you didn't read. As a general principal, anyway. I am about to make an exception, though.Andrew Leonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13964775673414653644noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7658526372996117205.post-65570959869943934982015-04-01T11:45:29.881-07:002015-04-01T11:45:29.881-07:00JeffO: That's the risk you run, for sure, and ...JeffO: That's the risk you run, for sure, and I have run into plenty of that, as you will see if you come back for parts 2 and 3 of this series. But badly behaving authors reflect poorly only on themselves.Andrew Leonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13964775673414653644noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7658526372996117205.post-73894460349617570542015-04-01T06:11:25.773-07:002015-04-01T06:11:25.773-07:00Well, you can try to get people to tell the truth ...Well, you can try to get people to tell the truth in reviews when it comes to friends' books, but the practice of giving high marks is pretty ingrained in the online/social media culture. Not sure that will change. I assume everyone can judge books for themselves, though. There's usually a way to check out the first chapter for yourself before you buy to see if a book is something you'd like or not, regardless of reviews.Luanne G. Smithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15762881276976395955noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7658526372996117205.post-89728875391434679612015-04-01T03:48:17.700-07:002015-04-01T03:48:17.700-07:00I've learned as a critique partner to really s...I've learned as a critique partner to really say what works and what doesn't. I didn't at first, especially with an early critique partner who just wasn't very good and I didn't know how to tell him. Now I know.<br />If I don't like a book, I usually don't get past the second or third chapter, if that. And sorry, I won't review a book I didn't read.Alex J. Cavanaughhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09770065693345181702noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7658526372996117205.post-90108984637955395122015-04-01T03:21:08.230-07:002015-04-01T03:21:08.230-07:00Well said. I've seen so many threads and blog ...Well said. I've seen so many threads and blog posts and what-not that say, "I won't leave anything less than a 4-star review" or "If I don't like it, I don't review it" or "If I couldn't finish it because it was so bad, I won't review it." What's the point of reviewing at all? And this is for any book, not just self-pubbed.<br /><br />At the same time, I suspect part of this also stems from the well-publicized cases of authors behaving badly when faced with bad reviews. A lot of people want to avoid the potential trolling of an author's "Internet Army" (or even an author's multiple fake IDs) if they leave a bad review, so they just don't bother. It's a shame.JeffOhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07947660745120963286noreply@blogger.com