tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7658526372996117205.post8922614051650953689..comments2023-09-29T05:32:04.308-07:00Comments on StrangePegs: Deliberate vs...: A Post About Thinking (Part Four)Andrew Leonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/13964775673414653644noreply@blogger.comBlogger15125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7658526372996117205.post-58661290741556662142013-02-11T23:40:09.174-08:002013-02-11T23:40:09.174-08:00Callie: Oh, man, we even had to learn different wa...Callie: Oh, man, we even had to learn different ways to examine and think of things and how to apply them. I'm not remembering all of them at the moment, but things like analysis and synthesis. It was good. I remember enjoying that stuff a lot.<br />I agree with you about space.<br /><br />Shannon: heh<br />I read an article back before the election talking about how we all raise our kids to be socialist Democrats. "You have to share." "No hitting." Then they grow up to be Republicans. It made me laugh.Andrew Leonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13964775673414653644noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7658526372996117205.post-13723208774305378512013-02-11T22:37:57.730-08:002013-02-11T22:37:57.730-08:00Yeah, I nearly posted a rant on exactly what age i...Yeah, I nearly posted a rant on exactly what age it is we lose the lessons we learned in childhood. We teach our kids to compromise, yet we can't do that as adults. What is the magical age where we shed all of our manners, the ability to listen, to compromise? In short, why is it that as adults we act the least like adults should?<br /><br />Shannon at <a href="http://thewarriormuse.com/" rel="nofollow">The Warrior Muse</a>Shannon Lawrencehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00934641808195675935noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7658526372996117205.post-79191891500028437082013-02-11T19:18:27.304-08:002013-02-11T19:18:27.304-08:00I didn't have classes that were FORMALLY on th...I didn't have classes that were FORMALLY on thinking, but I have to say that some of my teachers managed to teach it anyway. Thank god for them, even if they did drag us there kicking and screaming.<br /><br />Not to go on about space exploration <i>again</i> (I know I do it all the time) but I really do think that's something that could unite humankind.Callie Leuckhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09535505792102190920noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7658526372996117205.post-51971985264844438522013-02-11T17:31:51.398-08:002013-02-11T17:31:51.398-08:00Lee: Yeah, well, I just don't see myself inves...Lee: Yeah, well, I just don't see myself investing the time in writing anything non-fiction of that type. At least, not any time soon. Maybe, I'll change my mind one day.<br /><br />And, see, that thing you're saying there about responsibility is the reason that the government and businesses don't need to get us not to think. People don't like having responsibility so will cede it at any chance they get.<br /><br />Jeanne: Everyone reacts without bothering to think at all. But, yeah...Andrew Leonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13964775673414653644noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7658526372996117205.post-68746104118532659572013-02-11T15:10:57.527-08:002013-02-11T15:10:57.527-08:00So politics works the way it does because everyone...So politics works the way it does because everyone reacts before they think. That makes a sad amount of sense to me.<br /><br />We have the capability to think; it's time to use it and stop appealing to gut reactions.J E Fritzhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03372746219262163566noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7658526372996117205.post-65364356707041387902013-02-11T13:45:51.232-08:002013-02-11T13:45:51.232-08:00Sounds like this series is one of those "I co...Sounds like this series is one of those "I could write a book about it" sort of things and maybe you should one day.<br /><br />I also think kids should be given classes in how to think as well as motivational classes that teach why to think. We tell kids how important math, science, or proper grammar are but they mostly don't care because these things don't seem to have immediate gratification. Often the educational pursuits don't seem all that important to many kids until it's too late or never.<br /><br />But I think perhaps for the most part government and business prefer a mass of bodies that don't think too hard and are willing to follow. To many thinkers spoil the hierarchy or something and that's not beneficial to those on top. Stifling thought may be purposely done in order to control the people. Give 'em games and entertainment and make sure they don't go too hungry. We have a lot of brain-numbed people out there and much of the time this is the easiest way to go.<br /><br />To be the thinker means responsibility which in turns means the potential of failure and looking bad in the eyes of others. I've always used this philosophy in the jobs I've had. If I liked what I was doing I made it a point to become a manager. Even though it was sometimes more stressful than just being one of the peons, there were perks and more money involved. Who wouldn't want that? Lots of people. That's why we have unions I guess.<br /><br />Lee <br />Have you ever compiled a life soundtrack?<br /><a href="http://wrotebyrote.blogspot.com/" rel="nofollow">Wrote By Rote</a><br />An A to Z Co-host blog<br />Arlee Birdhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11663942782929929334noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7658526372996117205.post-13093744246526180502013-02-11T13:30:07.406-08:002013-02-11T13:30:07.406-08:00JKIR,F!: That's the hope for all of us, but I ...JKIR,F!: That's the hope for all of us, but I think most people just get older.<br /><br />Alex: "If you cut me, won't I bleed...?"<br /><br />ABftS: You know, I was actually thinking about that whole "special snowflake" thing the other day, but, if you ever look at a field of snow, how many of those flakes do you see?<br /><br />Briane: Oh, no, I agree with all of that, BUT that's where the whole empathy thing comes in. Thinking about what would be the absolute best solution as opposed to what is just the best solution for me. Currently, we're not equipped to work those things out.<br /><br />And, since you brought up global warming, I think we're still on the warming trend of coming out of the last ice age, and I'm pretty sure that historical data tend to back that up. Which is not to say that humans haven't hastened the process, like taking a (bunch of) magnifying glass to a piece of ice out in the sun. Earth started out a tropical planet, and I think it's just returning to that, at the moment. Not that I don't understand why people want to "fix" it.<br /><br />Oh, and I shouldn't have to pay. In fact, they should be paying me! Just sayin.<br /><br />Michael: Briane does do that sometimes.<br /><br />Rusty: Well, I do hope you bring some of it back later. It's always good to look into the Rusty mind.<br /><br />L.G.: Going back to the previous posts, that's why people need to learn to take their emotions out of the decision-making process. Stop putting what they want into the process and just weigh the evidence, so to speak.<br /><br />Nancy: Empathizing is a good thing and the only way "unbiased" decisions can be reached.Andrew Leonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13964775673414653644noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7658526372996117205.post-30902178823653746492013-02-11T12:00:44.629-08:002013-02-11T12:00:44.629-08:00While I do often trust my gut instincts, I tend to...While I do often trust my gut instincts, I tend to be an over-thinker, which I believe is a good thing. I also tend to put myself in the shoes of the other guy and often find myself arguing his side, even if I don't actually believe it, because I think its necessary for us to at least have an understanding of what others feel, believe, and think.Nancy Thompsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05735642863696266005noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7658526372996117205.post-83064454380995852062013-02-11T11:23:34.755-08:002013-02-11T11:23:34.755-08:00Maybe more thoughtful deliberation is the answer. ...Maybe more thoughtful deliberation is the answer. But having people deliberate and truly consider things still wouldn't provide any kind of consensus. People come to decisions based on all kinds of input and life experience...attitudes. We'd all just disagree at a slower pace, wouldn't we? Maybe I need to give this some more thought ...Luanne G. Smithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15762881276976395955noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7658526372996117205.post-66322572382052145352013-02-11T10:46:11.365-08:002013-02-11T10:46:11.365-08:00You know, I think I have so much to day about this...You know, I think I have so much to day about this, but typing on my phone is too hard and I'll wait til I get home - then I'll get home and think, do I really have that much to add? <br /><br />So yes, I had tons of thoughts - mostly brilliant ones - but I'm on my phone, so, I can't share them. Later, when I'm at home and have the opportunity I'll just not have the drive to type it all out because I'll remember that I have my own posts to worry about - and other blogs to visit. <br /><br />Needless to say, I had some real insight here. <br />Rusty Carlhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09887821877521181811noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7658526372996117205.post-51228698074738173732013-02-11T09:47:25.020-08:002013-02-11T09:47:25.020-08:00I can add nothing to this discussion in the wake o...I can add nothing to this discussion in the wake of Briane's comment. Good post though.Michael Offutt, Phantom Readerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10557969104886174930noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7658526372996117205.post-13274024075626974422013-02-11T09:16:58.640-08:002013-02-11T09:16:58.640-08:00I've been listening to "Superfreakonomics...I've been listening to "Superfreakonomics" as an audiobook this week and last and so your comment about "looking at the data" got to me. There's a part on global warming in that book that shows that the data shows that global warming is occurring... but that part of the late increases have been making up lost ground from global cooling that occurred just prior to that.<br /><br />It goes on to talk about the various fixes, including the fact that a complete conversion to solar power might pump so much carbon into the atmosphere (because we have to burn fossil fuels right now to build enough solar) that it would make things worse for a long time before better.<br /><br />Which isn't to start an argument over global warming, but to point out: Which data should we listen to? The part about global warming being real? Or the part about how we can't really fix it for at least 100 years?<br /><br />Or the part about how even if we don't fix it it might not be a bad thing after all?<br /><br />One thing I realize over and over in my real job is that two people can look at the same set of facts and see completely different things -- especially if the incentive is there to do just that. Lawyers get paid to see the facts differently. If you were sued, you would receive a piece of paper from someone who was convinced that the facts add up to you owing her money. You might not want to pay, and so you find a lawyer who says "Look at these other facts: Andrew shouldn't have to pay," and you all then have access to the same world of facts, but are incentivized to come to completely different conclusions, because if one of you agrees with the other, that costs money.<br /><br />Controlling emotional responses to facts are important, which is why people hire lawyers in the first place, but all that does is replace one incentive ("I can't believe I got sued! I'm never going to pay this guy!") with another incentive ("I am going to make sure this client pays me to avoid being sued") and substituting in a different set of behaviors, again based on the same facts.<br /><br />So I'm not sure we can ever as a group come together and agree on the best way to deal with a set of facts. Consider guns, a hot button issue. The facts are that the US has more gun deaths than anywhere else, per capita, at least in the 'civilized' world. The facts are that there are tons more guns around than there are people to use them, even.<br /><br />Everyone knows that. But the incentives that drive the emotional response ("I don't want kids to die" vs. "I really like my guns") are impossible to control or rein in -- or at the least very very hard to do. There's a lot of reason to suspect that your emotional response to certain factors is hard-wired, or so close to that as to be beyond changing.<br /><br />If that's the case, then all the shootings in the world won't change your emotional response.<br /><br />What I think we can do is get people to examine their motivations more, and try to see if they can't align their motivations to work with someone else's. Abortion/pro-life is a good example: Both sides don't want women burdened with babies they didn't want or can't care for, and presumably neither side wants babies to die. There is a lot of room for compromise, but competing motivations ("I'm opposed to birth control!" "I don't like adoptions!") interfere, too.<br /><br />I'm not as pessimistic as Alex. But I do think the issue isn't just thinking, it's thinking about how we think.Brianehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01616494058636881575noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7658526372996117205.post-41251562341208859092013-02-11T07:28:32.473-08:002013-02-11T07:28:32.473-08:00But if we don't divide ourselves, how will I s...But if we don't divide ourselves, how will I show everyone else that I'm different and therefore superior to them?A Beer for the Showerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17029139745335325356noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7658526372996117205.post-63310166268935708532013-02-11T04:31:34.119-08:002013-02-11T04:31:34.119-08:00Don't have time to think. No wait, that's ...Don't have time to think. No wait, that's don't have time to bleed.<br />People are people. I've lived in enough places and foreign countries to realize that we are far more similar than different.Alex J. Cavanaughhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09770065693345181702noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7658526372996117205.post-66777782777849025452013-02-11T04:30:25.116-08:002013-02-11T04:30:25.116-08:00It took me to ripe ol' middle age to learn to ...It took me to ripe ol' middle age to learn to stop and think. Before that I was so reactionary and my mouth got me in lots of trouble. Older, and hopefully wiser, now.Just Keepin It Real, Folks!https://www.blogger.com/profile/02691470259291755580noreply@blogger.com