tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7658526372996117205.post7154990938062593207..comments2023-09-29T05:32:04.308-07:00Comments on StrangePegs: Math Is Dumb (and Why)Andrew Leonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/13964775673414653644noreply@blogger.comBlogger17125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7658526372996117205.post-51929893607026025122014-12-21T12:45:53.757-08:002014-12-21T12:45:53.757-08:00Briane: If it wasn't my own kids, I'd rath...Briane: If it wasn't my own kids, I'd rather have me teaching them than a lot of others, too.Andrew Leonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13964775673414653644noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7658526372996117205.post-20862979353567139182014-12-21T10:55:21.285-08:002014-12-21T10:55:21.285-08:00I think we mostly agree; I don't know about ne...I think we mostly agree; I don't know about neutral tables in particular but I'd rather have you teaching my kids than a lot of others.Brianehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01616494058636881575noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7658526372996117205.post-79407980191433453682014-12-21T09:36:58.113-08:002014-12-21T09:36:58.113-08:00Briane: I don't have an issue with having a va...Briane: I don't have an issue with having a variety of paths to teach kids to get to the same goal. I do that a lot when I'm teaching (and I have been a math teacher and know that you often have to have many different examples so that everyone will get it). The problem, though, is that neutral tables are not a goal; they are a path. The goal is adding with negative numbers. Now, first, adding and subtracting is not a skill that should be being taught in 6th grade to begin with and, actually, it wasn't being taught. The neutral tables were being taught as if they were a thing all unto themselves, like finding the area of your living room or the volume of a fish tank. You don't take the path and make it the goal.<br /><br />And, yes, on the homework. Study after study has shown that disadvantaged kids struggle more with homework and fall even farther behind in homework-heavy environments.<br />But, you know, do it harder and faster and maybe something will change.Andrew Leonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13964775673414653644noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7658526372996117205.post-19836373973113216092014-12-20T09:10:18.671-08:002014-12-20T09:10:18.671-08:00You sound a lot like me talking about everything.
...You sound a lot like me talking about everything.<br /><br />I'm kind of with you, a bit? First my complaint: I don't like homework. I've come to realize how dumb it is. When you give homework, you take a kid who doesn't know this stuff, and say "Go work it out and teach yourself." If he can't teach himself (few can) he has to ask for help -- from parents. I have a poli sci and law degree. WHAT I KNOW FROM MATH? And also, what do I know about teaching? <br /><br />So homework delegates an important function -- teaching -- to thousands of unqualified, untested, possibly unmotivated people. Homework should end. (I note that homework also disadvantages kids whose parents work longer hours, or who have less educated parents, making it a trap for poorer/less educated families.)<br /><br />Anyway: About all this different math. I agree with you that they shouldn't just invent new things to sell textbooks. But as I have been working with Mr Bunches this year on his math (because I am apparently an adjunct teacher to our school district thanks to homework) I've noticed the many many different ways the present information, some of which are new to me. (Number Triangles or something like that baffled me). But Mr Bunches in particular has a really hard time with abstract concepts like math, and seeing things several different ways seems to really help him. So if number lines work for me and you but neutral tables help teach the concepts to someone else and Mr Bunches needs Number Triangles, I don't think that's such a bad thing.<br /><br />I struggled with math all my life, until one day I thought "Math is just a different language. It's like Spanish or computer programming. It's just a way to SAY things." I know that's not 100% accurate but that thinking was a breakthrough for me and I now understand math a lot better.<br /><br />So new concepts to sell new textbooks, I'm with you it's stupid. But if they're actually helping kids understand hard concepts and get a love of math, I'm okay with that.<br />Brianehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01616494058636881575noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7658526372996117205.post-29581353044147500472014-12-20T08:24:56.550-08:002014-12-20T08:24:56.550-08:00As long as you don't make it mad. You never wa...As long as you don't make it mad. You never want to make math mad.Andrew Leonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13964775673414653644noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7658526372996117205.post-85875529674609685392014-12-20T02:16:15.568-08:002014-12-20T02:16:15.568-08:00I've never gotten along with math. We've a...I've never gotten along with math. We've agreed to remain distant acquaintances.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04283371140346602856noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7658526372996117205.post-63134765959712802722014-12-19T18:51:42.451-08:002014-12-19T18:51:42.451-08:00Janie: I agree!Janie: I agree!Andrew Leonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13964775673414653644noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7658526372996117205.post-69142136815720545592014-12-19T18:51:28.795-08:002014-12-19T18:51:28.795-08:00Jeanne: You didn't have number lines? That'...Jeanne: You didn't have number lines? That's just... weird.<br />And, by the way, the neutral tables are for teaching -basic- math, because negative numbers are basic math.Andrew Leonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13964775673414653644noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7658526372996117205.post-49725528529743668652014-12-19T16:55:22.647-08:002014-12-19T16:55:22.647-08:00That's ridiculous. A neutral table--bah, humbu...That's ridiculous. A neutral table--bah, humbug!<br /><br />Love,<br />JanieJanie Junebughttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10573607241326291404noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7658526372996117205.post-24275689387381100382014-12-19T14:58:38.656-08:002014-12-19T14:58:38.656-08:00I've never heard of a number line. I guess wha...I've never heard of a number line. I guess what they teach changes a lot.<br /><br />I'm not sure if it's a waste of teaching. Most people don't use anything but the most basic forms of math, so if you're going to teach beyond that, there has to be a purpose. And I think that purpose is how to solve problems in different ways, like by calculator or some weird system. It's a good idea to stretch the mind by learning new approaches.<br /><br />That being said, yes, the education system is totally broken and textbooks publishers are a cancer in that system. I think in order to effect real change, it's going to have to be at both the local level and the national level, and the former is going to be totally hindered by the latter's insistence on state exams.J E Oneilhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09780097298061829471noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7658526372996117205.post-20734164705594247492014-12-19T11:08:26.601-08:002014-12-19T11:08:26.601-08:00Anne: I'm still ambivalent about calculators. ...Anne: I'm still ambivalent about calculators. On the one hand, they're like wikipedia, which I am all for. Why bother to enforce memorization of facts that can easily be looked up, now. On the other, I still think it's a good idea to know some of the basic skills we're turning over to machines. But maybe it's not? I mean, why should I bother to work out some cumbersome long division problem when my calculator can just tell me the answer?Andrew Leonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13964775673414653644noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7658526372996117205.post-15184069601414222042014-12-19T11:04:49.308-08:002014-12-19T11:04:49.308-08:00Rebekah: Or just get workbooks and don't bothe...Rebekah: Or just get workbooks and don't bother with texts at all?<br /><br />Anne: I breezed through Calculus in college because of the teacher I had in high school. Actually, there wasn't much in college that I hadn't already done at a higher level in high school but, then, my high school wasn't really typical.Andrew Leonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13964775673414653644noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7658526372996117205.post-23081781115468691572014-12-19T10:50:30.068-08:002014-12-19T10:50:30.068-08:00Alex: Metric stayed around for a while. We spent s...Alex: Metric stayed around for a while. We spent several years working with metrics and, because of it, it has become standard in science-related topics, now, I believe.Andrew Leonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13964775673414653644noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7658526372996117205.post-16635707013232917032014-12-19T08:02:29.618-08:002014-12-19T08:02:29.618-08:00They keep calling these ridiculous changes the &qu...They keep calling these ridiculous changes the "new math". And you're right, it's not new. <br /><br />Back in my day there were no calculators, they hadn't been invented. I was horrified to find out that my kids were allowed to use them in class.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01681799401614263953noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7658526372996117205.post-52396877442998949952014-12-19T07:58:49.838-08:002014-12-19T07:58:49.838-08:00I home schooled my daughter and it was the best th...I home schooled my daughter and it was the best thing I ever did. She's on full scholarship at Uni now. She's bored out of her mind because they're teaching at a level that is too low for her.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01681799401614263953noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7658526372996117205.post-64425553793430533312014-12-19T07:44:53.122-08:002014-12-19T07:44:53.122-08:00And this is why I will likely be homeschooling my ...And this is why I will likely be homeschooling my (future) children... and also why I should probably start haunting all the local used curriculum hang outs so I can get 'older' math textbooks before they're all gone.Rebekah Loperhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09910220361720811916noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7658526372996117205.post-42418148398379862402014-12-19T04:12:32.619-08:002014-12-19T04:12:32.619-08:00Never heard of a neutral table either. I do rememb...Never heard of a neutral table either. I do remember the number line, as we used it to understand negative numbers.<br />I remember trying to learn some 'new math' in grade school, in part due to a new way to do division (which was quickly abandoned) and trying to switch to metric (which was also quickly abandoned.)Alex J. Cavanaughhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09770065693345181702noreply@blogger.com